another daughter was Edith Ida born in 1882 she married William Alfred Carnes and she died in Oatlands in 1956

thank you clarkey, have got that info, also had 2 other children, William and Arthur Henry. The children were all very young when their mother died, as already stated Sarah was raised by the ADAMS family so wondering what became of others and of course their father, researching a william is hard enough but with a SMITH on the end sometimes seems impossible.

My dad has some knowledge of what his mother told him - she was Edith Carnes (nee Smith)... Edith Ida Matilda... Dad is almost 85, still lives in Oatlands and while there is a lot he doesn't know there is a lot that he does... he was the baby of the family of William Alfred (Bill) Carnes and Edith. Bill is listed in some of the records only as Alfred. Edith and Sarah were not officially adopted by Betsy Adams though she did raise the girls and ensure they got a good education (at the catholic convent in Oatlands).

My dad would probably have some knowledge of what happened to William Smith.

Hi rcarnes,would love to chat to your dad. Any chance?
Cheers,
Nerise Routledge
Launceston

I am a descendant of Arthur Henry who became a shearer and moved to the mainland. He was shearing in NSW when he joined the army in Dubbo to fight overseas in WW1. All his details regarding this are available online at Aust War Museum. These records seem to indicate that he had a brother by name of Richard Joseph Smith. I have been unable to verify this. Suspect it may have been a younger brother. Have you any information in the previous generation of Smiths (3 boys who were the children of ex-convicts.

Hello rfuller,did not have any of this info so thank you. Williams wife died in 1886 and arthur born in 1885 so unless william remarried i think it unlikely there was a younger brother, unless of course the mother died in childbirth. Have no info on William other than marriage,don't know what became of him after the death of
emily. Do you know if there was aboriginal heritage in this line.
Cheers,
Nerise routledge
nerise.routledge@bigpond.com

Arthur Henry was born on 4th March 1885 and Emily Jane Smith(Cleave) died on 20th October 1886. That leaves plenty of time to have another child, maybe it did have something to do with her death even though it says Consumption on the death certificate. Do you know anything about a Louise Smith who is listed as Informant for the birth of Arthur Henry. Do not think there was any aboriginal heritage in the line as per previous on Joseph Smith and Jane Ross (suspect both were ex-convicts.

Thanks for that, will look into convicts. I did not have William Smiths parentage. Will also see what I can find on Louisa Smith. This tree is for my son-in-law Rueben Towns. Have done heaps of work, suspect aboriginal but have been unable to come up with anything concrete other than what some of the family think and there is also the fact that his family have the colouring and facial features.
Cheers, Nerise

Hello rfuller, Have had a look and Jane Ross looks to be a convict. Arrived in tassie 26 jan, 1852 at age 20. Got 7 years for theft, sad isn't it.Haven't had any luck with Joseph yet. As well as the three sons born to Joseph and Jane there was an unnamed female born 1866, maybe she was the informant for arthur henry birth, just a thought.

Jane Ross was a bit older than 20 when she arrived. I suspect she was 28 as she got married in the same year she arrived. Was age 29 on marriage certificate when she married Joseph Smith on 25th October 1852 at Parish Church at Oatlands. That info about an unknown female child is a bit of a furphy. Jane Ross did have a young child when she arrived but the child died at the female factory about a month after she arrived. Is listed as infant death at female factory website maybe under surname Campbell with Ross in brackets. Is also in her convict record somewhere.
Maybe Con 15-1-7 page 182&183. Page maybe wrong but is across two pages and is the bottom line. Says that baby's name is Isabella and that father was a W.M Gardner from the 27th Regiment.
My brother originally sniffed onto this Jane Ross by visiting the museum at Oatlands and mentioned that he was looking for information on Athur Henry Smith and they were very helpfull. Suspect you more detaile info may be at the source there. Joseph Smith is a very hard one to find as there are more than 100 different Joseph Smith convicts sent to VDL

You are right rfuller, just checked convict papers and it is an 8 not a 0, so she was 28. Too true joseph is had to find but somebody out there must know something, I waited nearly 2 years for your info. Anyway good luck with it, will keep trying.
Cheers, Nerise

Did you happen to find out anything about William after his wife's death as I don't know anything. I thought that maybe the Richard Joseph mentioned in Arthur Henry's war records may have been a half brother from a second marriage but it is only a thought.

How spooky was going to ask you the same question, I know that the girls (Arthur's sisters) were raised by some one else after emily's death, and because Arthur was so young was he sent somewhere else? and then of course there's Richard. Louisa has also been on my mind because of the birth certificate. Why do you think she doesn't belong to Joseph and Jane. I got that info from Tas archives, know it doesn't have to be true, have you other info on that. Am off to the library in the next few days to see if I can come up with anything else, this is a puzzle!! William just seemed to slip off the radar, like I said been trying to work this out for years, lucky you had his parentage, now can start again.

hi rfuller, Just a couple of questions, are you sure the William born to joseph and jane is the one who married emily cleave. william and emilys marriage certificate states emily being 15 and william full age. they were married in 1872 and william birth date is 1855, that makes him only 17.
Cheers Nerise

My grandfather was Joseph Richard William Smith. My mother tells me his father was Richard Smith and his father, my gr gr grandfather was William Smith who married Emily Jane Cleave, daughter of Charles and Matilda Cleave. We don’t have any information on William’s parents. Could you clarify if you have been able to solve this riddle?

Hi bluewombat, sorry have not been able to solve riddle, have followed many lines but nothing. I note on one of rfuller messages Richard Joseph was mentioned in Arthur Henrys war records, his thoughts are that it may have been a half brother, but that can't be as you have it that William and Emily Jane are your great grandparents. My email address is nerise.routledge@bigpond.com if you would like to contact me, have other stuff and maybe together we may be able to sort this out, wouldn't that be great!!

My mother says my great grandfather Richard Smith was the second son of William Smith and Emily Jane Cleave born 11.7.1872 – died 12.10.1913 Buried in Blackwood Creek Tas. After his death his wife Maude Hilda (née Pearce) moved to Victoria. It is interesting that Richard was named by Arthur Henry Smith as his next of kin when he enlisted, as Richard was already dead. Unless there was another Richard Smith - an uncle? Or did Arthur Henry Smith not know his brother was dead? The family correspondence inquiring of Arthur Henry’s well-being and whereabouts after he was injured and then discharged from service, appear to be written by Maude (Mrs Richard Smith) and one delightful letter written to the Red Cross in 1919 by my grandfather, Joseph Richard Smith, then about 12 years of age.