Is this the record you refer to

UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 about Benj Lawrence
Name: Benj Lawrence
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Birth Date: abt 1881
Departure Date: 12 May 1892
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Circassian
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Circassian' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Allan Line
Master: Robt P Moola

On the original it has Benj Lawrence named crossed through which usually means they did not travel on the ship.

I found the family in 1881, 1891 & 1901 Census

1881 Census

1881 England Census about George Lawrence
Name: George Lawrence
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Caroline Lawrence
Gender: Male
Where born: Theydon Garnon, Essex, England
Civil Parish: North Weald Bassett
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: Thornwood Comn
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: Gardener & General Servt

Household Members:
Name Age
George Lawrence 33, Head
Caroline Lawrence 32, wife, b 1849 Lambeth Surrey
Naomi Lawrence 9, daugh, b1872 Lambourne Essex
Lydia Lawrence 5, daugh, b1876 Lambourne Essex
Emily Lawrence 2, daugh, b1879 North Weald Essex
George Lawrence 1, son, b1880 North Weald Essex

1891 Census

1891 England Census about George Laurence
Name: George Laurence
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline Laurence
Gender: Male
Where born: Coopersale, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Stifford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
George Laurence 43, head, Occ: Gardner
Caroline Laurence 42, wife b1849 Lambeth
Naomi Laurence 18, daugh, b1873 Axbridge
George Laurence 11, son, b1880 Epping
Benjamin Laurence 9, son, b1882, Epping
Frederick Laurence 7, son, b1884, Epping
Herbert Laurence 1, son, b1890, Epping
Edward Laurence 1/12,son b1891, Stifford

1901 Census

1901 England Census about M George Laurence
Name: M George Laurence
[George Mark Lawrence]
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Caroline Laurence
Birth Place: Epping, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Runwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Runwell St Mary
Town: Runwell
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
M George Laurence 51,Head, Occ: Labourer of Farm
Caroline Laurence 50, Wife, Laundress
Herbert Laurence 11, son, Schoolboy
Edward Laurence 10, son, schoolboy

Address Wichford Road

I found the other entry

UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 about Benj Lawrence
Name: Benj Lawrence
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Birth Date: abt 1882
Departure Date: 11 May 1893
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Circassian
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Circassian' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Allan Line
Master: B T Eastaway


This is possibly the marriage for George and Caroline, a copy of the marriage from GRO UK will give you more details on both

Marriages Jun 1871
Alefounder Caroline Jane Epping 4a 116
Lawrance George Mark Epping 4a 116
Lawrence George Mark Epping 4a 116

1871 Census

1871 England Census about George Lawrence
Name: George Lawrence
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Lawrence
Mother's name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Theydon Garnon, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Theydon Garnon
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
James Lawrence 51, head, Bricklayer
Mary Ann 49, wife, b1822 Theydon Garnon
George Lawrence 23, son, b1848 Theydon Garon Occ: Gardner
Frederick Lawrence 19, son, b1852 Theydod Garnon Occ: Ag Lab
Walter Lawrence 10, son, b 1861 Theydon Garnon

1851 Census

1851 England Census about Gwyn Mark Lawrence
Name: Gwyn Mark Lawrence
[George Mark Lawrence]
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Lawrence
Mother's name: Mary Ann Lawrence
Gender: Male
Where born: Thoydon Garnon, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Theydon Garnon
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
James Lawrence 29,head, b1822 Enford Middlesex, Occ; Bricklayer
Mary Ann Lawrence 29, wife b1823 Theydon Garnon
Hannah Lawrence 8, daugh, b1843 Theydon Garnon
Lucy Hider 6 grand daugh, (possibly neice) b 1845 Theydon Garnon
Gwyn Mark Lawrence 3, son (reads George Mark)
William Cussop 20,son in law, b 1831 Theydon Garnon Occ: Farm Lab

William above reads Jessop, and is brother in law, he is Mary Ann's brother.


This is most likely Caroline

Births Mar 1849
Alefounder Caroline Jane Lambeth 4 281


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Caroline Jane Alefounder
Name: Caroline Jane Alefounder
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 7 Mar 1849
Father's Name: George Alefounder
Mother's name: Susannah Alefounder
Parish or Poor Law Union: Saint Michael, Stockwell
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Registers

Caroline in 1851 Census

1851 England Census about Caroline Alexander
Name: Caroline Alexander
[Caroline Alefounder]
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Alexander
Mother's name: Susan Alexander
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Stockwell St Michael
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
George Alexander 39, hesd, b 1812 Bury St Edmonds Occ Ostler
Susan Alexander 38, wife, b1812, lambeth
George Alexander 6, son, b1845, Lambeth
Arthur Alexander 5, son, b1846, Lambeth
Emma Alexander 3, daugh, b1848 Lambeth
Caroline Alexander 3, daugh, b1848 Lambeth
Charles Alexander 3, brother, b1848 bury st Edmond
Ann Alexander 3 Mo, daugh, b1851 Lambeth

Children
George - bap George William 14 Jun 1846
Arthur- bap Arthur Charles 14 Jun 1846 (known as Arthur or Charles)
Caroline - as above
Ann - bap Sarah Anne 5 Jan 1851 (known as Sarah or Ann)

also Amelia Rebecca bap 28 Sept 1853 (known as Amy, Amelia, or Rebecca)

nothing further found for Emma as yet

Naomi Caroline Amy Lawrence married 1895

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Naomi Caroline Amy Lawrence
Name: Naomi Caroline Amy Lawrence
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Age: 22
Spouse Name: Thomas George Fairbrother
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 Jul 1895
Parish: Camberwell Emmanuel
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: George Mark Lawrence
Spouse Father: John Charles Fairbrother
Register Type: Parish Register


In 1901 Census
George Lawrence 20, Railway Engineer Worker, living at Smith St, Sth Shoebury Essex

In 1901 Census
Frederick Lawrence, 17, Drummer Grenedier Guards, Victoria Barracks


George & Caroline childrens Births
Births Jun 1872
Lawrence Naomi Caroline Ongar 4a 136

Births Dec 1875
Lawrence Lydia Ruth Ongar 4a 161

There are two possibles for Emily

Births Mar 1879
Lawrence Emily Blanche Epping 4a 192
Births Sep 1879
Lawrence Emily Epping 4a 191

Births Jun 1880
LAWRENCE George William Epping 4a 205

Births Dec 1881
Lawrence Benjamin Epping 4a 231

possibly Birth
Births Mar 1884
Lawrence Frederick Sidney Epping 4a 275

Possible Birth
Births Dec 1889
Lawrence Herbert Edward Orsett 4a 373

possible Birth
Births Jun 1891
Lawrence Edward Lancelot Orsett


Possible death for Emily
Deaths Jun 1886
Lawrence Emily Blanche 7 Epping 4a 111

1911 Census

1911 England Census about George Lawrence
Name: George Lawrence
Age in 1911: 63
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Coopersale, Essex
Civil Parish: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 22 Raglan Road, Walthamstow
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Gardener

Household Members:
Name Age
George Lawrence 63, Head, Occ: Gardener
Caroline Lawrence 62, Wife
Herbert Lawrence 21,son, Occ Sheet Metal Worker
Edward Lawrence 20, son. Occ; Salesman

states married 39 years 8 children 7 living 1 deceased.

Wow, i don't know what to say. Yes,m?t is the record i was looking for. Thank you so much.

3 of Benjamin childs are stil alive. I'm so excited to show them what you just gave me in informations. Thank you again and have a gr??t weekend end.

There is a possibility that this is George & Carolines son Benjamin states his occupation as Jobbing Gardner same as George Lawrence b 1848 in 1911 Census above.


1911 England Census about Benjamin Lawrence
Name: Benjamin Lawrence
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Epping
Civil Parish: Wickford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: London & Great Road, Wickford
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Jobbing Gardener

Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Lawrence 28, Head,
Amy Lawrence 24, wife, Woodford
Benjamin Lawrence 5, son Woodford
Amy Lawrence 4,daugh Woodford

states married 6years 2 children

Marriages Mar 1905

LAURENCE Benjamin W. Ham 4a 199
LAWRENCE Benjamin W. Ham 4a 199
Page Amy Charlotte M W. Ham 4a 199

a copy will give you details of his father.

Are you absolutely sure that you have the right Benjamin Lawrence. As you can see I found a Benjamin not far from George & Caroline in the 1911 Census, both Benjamin & George have the same Occupation.

Do you have a copy of your Benjamin's marriage certificate to verify his fathers name and/or his birth certificate.

If not I would certainly start with one of his children's birth certificate and then his marriage certificate to get his fathers name and then his birth certificate just to be sure it is the right Benjamin Lawrence.

Yes, we are ont s?re it is the good Benjamin.

On his mariage certificat (Canada) his mother name is Jessie (Jessy ??) Turner but my grandmother had ? birth certificat made in 1951 from Uk that s'aider Caroline Alefounder. My grandmother is dead now so i can't ask her if she had the good birth date. I guess she must have ask Benjamin first. I know that Benjamin was not talking about his Family and England, never. When he arrived here, he was not tollerated to speak in english. I Will call benjamin son this weekend, to ask him few questions again.

Thanks again,

Annie from Canada

On his marriage certificate does it give a fathers name??

I think I know what has happened the only Benjamin Lawrence that was registered in 1881 is for the Benjamin son of George and Caroline. So your grandmother was sent this birth certificate, it does not prove that your Benjamin is the son of George & Caroline only that it is the only one that the GRO had for the available date under the name Benjamin Lawrence and with no mothers name to go by they sent the one they found. It's happened before.

So now you have to consider that Benjamin is the son of Jessie Turner and not Caroline Alefounder.

Do you know for absolute certainty that Benjamin was born in Essex or is it only from the Birth certificate that you grandmother had.??

Do any of Benjamin's papers give any clues as to where in England he may have come from apart form the Immigration record. If he was a orphan from which orphanage was he sent to Canada from. These are some very important question to consider.

There are several Benjamin Lawrence's on the Census all born around the same time. I found one family with mother Jessie.

1881 Census
George 54 Head
Jessie, 35 Wife
Jessie, 15 daughter
William, 9, son
Dinah, 4, daugh
Benjamin, 9?, son (it looks like 9 weeks)

they are also on the 1891 Census

George, 63 Head
Jessie 41, wife
Dinah, 13 daugh
Benjamin 9, son

nothing after 1891 Census on each census the place of birth and date changes for each person.

a possible birth could be this one, but there is no way of knowing unless you purchase the certificate. It could be totally the wrong Benjamin.

Births Dec 1880
LAWRENCE Benjamin Thanet 2a 851

We don't have any paper of him. On his marriage certificat, his father name is George Lawrence and beau de Jessie Turner, it is written Ireland.

I know it won't be easy. And my big est fera is that we Will never be certain of anything. The Essex part is only from the birth certificat.

Few years ago, we found a Benjamin Lawrence on a passenger list. We are not sure it is the good Benjamin but the age are ok.
He was with the Salford Protection society (rev. Father Rossall's Party).

I don't know if the record of this society are available.

Thank you for your precious help.

Interesting regarding Jessie & Ireland the Dinah above was born in Ireland.

1881 family living in Manchester Lancashire
George born Camp Denton Middlesex Occ: Vocalist
Jessie born Lanarkshire Scotland Occ: Vocalist
Jessie born Dudley Staffordshire
William born Yorkshire
Dinah born Ireland
Benjamin born Manchester

1891 family living in Manchester Lancashire
George born London Occ: Shoemaker
Jessie born Oatley Yorkshire
Dinah Born Ireland
Benjamin born Manchester Lancashire

I also found George in the 1871 living in Stoke on Trent Staffordshire

George 44 born London Middlesex Occ: Vocalist
Jessie 6 born Dudley Staffordshire

Haven't found Jessie as yet.

This is Jessie's (daughter) Birth

Births Sep 1865
LAWRENCE Jessie Dudley 6c 133


It may give you some clues if this is the right family if her mother is Jessie Turner it may also give you details of marriage and occupations.

I did find a birth for a Benjamin Lawrence in West Yorkshire which could also possibly be your Benjamin, again it's just another possibility.

Births Sep 1880
LAWRENCE Benjamin Holbeck 9b 35


You might like to contact the local council in Salford to see if they can give you more details on the Society or give you contact details on how to find out more information, this is the local council website.

www.salford.gov.uk

In 1881 census for George it should read born Camden Town not Camp Denton and I also found him on 1861 Census and his baptism record.


1861 England Census about George Lawrence
Name: George Lawrence
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: 1827
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Camdentown, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: Jericho
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Occ: Singer & Dancer


Lawrence
Name: George Joseph Lawrence
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Feb 1830
Father's Name: George Lawrence
Mother's name: Diana Lawrence
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

Details
Born 13 Feb 1827
Fathers Occ: Sandman

also sister Sarah Louisa b1829 baptised same day.

I will try with this familly and ask Benjamin hhilds if he talked about one of his sister having a handicap (Dinah.

Thank you again so much,

Annie

I will also change the publication and put other names (now that I am sure that Caroline Alefounder is not Benjamin's mother.

I found a marriage for George Joseph Lawrence Music Professor

Marriages Dec 1854

Lawrance George Joseph S Pancras 1b 47
Lawrence George Joseph S Pancras 1b 47
Neal Margaret St Pancras 1b 47


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about George Joseph Lawrence
Name: George Joseph Lawrence
Spouse Name: Margaret Neal
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Oct 1854
Parish: St Pancras Parish Chapel
Borough: Camden
Father Name: George Lawrence
Spouse Father: Daniel Neal
Register Type: Parish Register

Details

St Thomas Church
George Joseph Lawrence
Full age
Bachelor
Cambridge Crescent
Occ: Professor of Music
Father George Occ; Labourer

Margaret Neal
Full Age
Spinster
Bidborough St.
Father Daniel Occ: Labourer

Witnesses
Alfred Soutkon??
Eliza Freeman (x her mark)

George signed, Margaret x her mark

Margaret is with him on the 1861 Census, I missed it before. It would be interesting to find out who Jessie b Dudley mother was.

Do you meen that the same George Lawrence (born in Camdentown)who was married with Jessie, would have been married with another woman before?????

I don't know what a spinster meen. But i suppose it is a woman who haven't been married yet.

I Will Try to order ? certificat for the Jessie b. In Dudley. I hope it is easy. I know it Will take 2 or 3 weeks to receive it.
Are you living in Uk??? I'm asking because i wonder if it is easier from there to search for that kind of info.
I must admit that is the first time I'm looking for ancestors. Maybe i don't have enough practice. Maybe you have a lot of tricks.

I know i said it before but Thank you again for all the help.

Directly from Canada at 11:26 pm

Annie Lawrence

Yes George was married to Margaret and Spinster just meas she was a single woman, not previously married.

There are several possibilities for Margaret, she died in England or Ireland.
It is also possible that George married Jessie in Ireland.


I use a few search sites, ancestry and here are a couple that you might like to try, both are free to search.


UK Free BMD
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Family Search (LSD site)
https://familysearch.org

There are also several Parish offices that are willing to help for a small fee, and some don't charge but like a donation for assistance. Search on Google and you should find the Parish contact information.



Here are the details to help you through the certificate, go to GRO Uk website, register online and fill in the form.

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Details you will need to fill in are:

Certificate type: Birth (England & Wales)
For all Events: GRO reference known: YES
Year in Which was registered: 1865

Press Submit

Surname at Birth: Lawrence
Forename: Jessie

Reference Information from GRO Index
Year 1865 (should already be there)
Quarter: Jul/Aug/Sep
District Name: Dudley
Volume No.: 6c
Page No.: 133

Fill in which service you want and hit submit and then wait for the certificate to arrive.

Just found this on the family search site

Dinah Louisa Lawrance

Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881

birth: 28 January 1877 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland

father: Georg Joseph Lawrance
mother: Jessie Lawrance Boyd
Name Dinah Louisa Lawrance
Gender Female
Christening Date
Christening Place
Birth Date 28 Jan 1877
Birthplace Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name Georg Joseph Lawrance
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name Jessie Lawrance Boyd
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C00824-1
System Origin Ireland-ODM
GS Film number 255971
Reference ID

George and Jessie were my great great grandparents. Their daughter Jessica married Joseph Power and one of their sons, John Power, was my maternal grandfather.
I don't know much about them, other than what is in the 1881 census - they lived at Back Water Street, Manchester, George was from Middlesex and Jessie from Glasgow.
But I do know they were Music Hall performers and I have several glass negative portraits of them posing in their various stage costumes. These were passed down through our family in Manchester.
I did know we had distant relatives in Canada!

The story I was told was that Benjamin wasn't orphaned, he was left behind by George and Jessie when they were on a Music Hall tour and they came back to find he'd gone (with another brother possibly?) and they never saw them again.

Wow, i' m in choc!

I knew ( from my recherch) that George (Benjamin's father) was not dead when Benjamin came to Canada but ... Left behind????

Do you mean that they forgot to pick him up after a concert?????? Or they went on a trip for many shows and whan they came home, he was not there anymore???????? Like I wrote you before, my english is not perfect. Sorry!

There is 2 childs of Benjamin who are still alive. They are very old but i speak to them very often. Benjamin was sent to a french speaking family in the Province of Québec. He was not aloud to speak in english. The family he was with was not able to untherstand english or translate, anyway. Benjamin never talked of his childhood in England to his child so they can not help me by giving me some clues. They never learned that George and Jessie were musician until I told them in april 2014.

Pictures????? It is unbelivable! Do you think you could take a picture of those pictures and send it to me by email???????? You can not imagine how happy I am right now!!!!!!!

Have a good night,

Annie

I have just a little question (another) : you say that your great grandmother was Jessica but i have ordered her birth certificat. She was born in Dudley , august16th 1865 but her name on the certificat is Jessie. Like her mother. Am i right???????

Thank you again for your time and please keep in contact with me.

Annie Lawrence xx

I have an Ancestry account. If you also have one, you could see my family tree that i have built.

Ok, i realy have to go to sleep now. It is almost midnight here and Iworrk tomorow.

Bye, bye (realy for today)

Annie

I'm not sure which form of the name they used. On the 1881 census it looks like Jesse & the daughter is Jessie. On the 1911 census the daughter is Jessica (now married - Jessica Power). My mother's maiden name was Powwr.
I don't have an Ancestry account yet. But yes I can email the photos to you.
It must have been traumatic for Benjamin. I don't know what the circumstances of him going to Canada were exactly. Maybe he had been left with his older sister while they went on a tour and the Church (the Salford Protection Society?) decided he had been abandoned and neglected and they thought they doing the best for him by giving him a new life in Canada. I suppose we will never know.

Paul